The Leader of Our Enemies
Islam is the key to it all. I don't care what anyone says because I read the Quran and I know. They can call it a religion of peace all they want, but when it comes down to it, the source of the problem is Islam. This is my position, and it's the truth. I know we were taught in school that prejudice is bad. I know we were taught that judging an entire group of people based on one factor is wrong. This isn't what I'm doing.
I judge the religion of Islam and I do not judge the Muslim, but only their ability and risk to be easily turned into an extremist based on the absolutely vicious teachings of the Quran. Let's get down to it.
Over at ArabNews.com, a very interesting article has been posted. The headline: Punishing Disobedient Wives... You know what's coming, don't you?
Now when I saw the headline, I was expecting some uppity Muslim douche bag to defend the atrocious words of the Quran, and to try and explain that you're not supposed to actually beat your wife. Wrong. The article is actually pro wife-beater. The writer comes out against people who don't interpret a certain passage properly. He basically says you're actually supposed to beat your wife, which the Quran says to do in plain terms, and not throw her out of the house which is what moderate Muslims do apparently. On to the article.
I find it unacceptable when some people twist the meaning of a particular verse in the Holy Qur’an — especially the one which permits a husband to beat his disobedient wife.
Children are disobedient. Cats are disobedient. Dogs are disobedient. Women are not disobedient. Women bitch, and that's that. In America, it is considered extremely wrong to beat children, cats, dogs, or women. Even if they are moody and never seem to be happy. It's just the way it is. We still love them, despite their sometimes insane logic. We do not beat them because of it. Not beating your disobedient wife is an unheard of concept to this man though.
The verse — number 34 in Surah IV — reads as follows: “Men are the protectors and maintainers of women because Allah has given them one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore, righteous women are devotedly obedient and guard in (the husband’s) absence what Allah would have them guard. And to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first) and (then) refuse to share their beds (and last) beat them (lightly), but if they return to obedience, seek not against them means of annoyance.”
Beyond fucking sick. First of all, I love how this asshole adds in his own paraphrasing. He adds "lightly" after the commandment of beating your disobedient wife. Who is he to decide that Allah meant lightly or harshly? He's no one. He only added that "lightly" in there so his argument wasn't 110% fucked, opposed to 100% fucked. Regardless, the Quran very simply states to first yell at them nicely, then stop fucking them, and if they continue to disobey, then beat them. It doesn't say lightly beat them. It just says beat them. Do you people realize that this is the word of their God, and this is the mindset of Muslims? They don't pick and choose what to obey and disobey of their God's words. Unlike Christians, they actually live and die by their book. I'm speaking of the average Muslim versus the average Christian.
The beating which is only prescribed in the case of disobedient wives is intended to serve as a remedy in an unusual situation. If the husband feels the wife is behaving in a disobedient and rebellious manner, he is required to rectify her attitude — first by kind words, then gentle persuasion and reasoning. Beating as a last resort must never be understood to entail using a stick or any other instrument that would cause pain or injury.
No. Beating your wife is not a remedy for an unusual situation. Divorce or separation is the remedy. Isn't that a strange concept for the Muslims? You don't actually own your wife. Despite popular belief, every innocent person, or at least close to innocent person is a free person. No woman is ever owned by any man. But this is considered normal in Islam. This isn't just the case in the middle east. This is also the case of those kind Muslims you see running your local gas station. But hey, at least he denounces the use of sticks or instruments. He says not to use them because they would inflict pain or injury. But... It's OK to use your hand. Because that doesn't inflict pain or injury? What the fuck is this man talking about. Do you see the double-talk? He wants to defend his religion without exposing its viciousness because he too knows the truth and defends it anyway.
A rebellious woman who is not moved by kind words, persuasion and admonition is a woman of no feeling and must therefore be punished by beating. Psychiatrists tell us of people, including women, for whom a cure lies in beating.
What? Let me inform this asshole, along with every other sadistic Muslim of a sad, but true fact of life. Women very rarely respond to kind words, gentle persuasion, or denial of sex when faced with an "unusual situation." You ladies who read my site know this to be true, and you guys who read my site know this to be true. We love women and women love men, but there are just simple facts of life. Women complain a lot because men are assholes. It's just the way it is. All I guy can do is try to be less of an asshole while a girl tries not to complain as much. That's just a fact of life. Not in the Muslim world, though. A man is never an asshole. A man is superior and if a women should ever disobey him, she shall be beaten.
And then this little fuck has the nerve to bring psychiatry into play. He actually makes the absurd claim that psychiatrists say that women are cured by beatings. Maybe in your fucking fanatical, primitive, and unevolved middle eastern shithole "psychiatrists" will claim women respond to beatings. Sure they do. They respond by curling up and dying inside. But why would these lovely Muslim men care if that happened? Their women are only there to satisfy their animalistic need to fuck, and nothing more.
The controversy over the beating of disloyal and rebellious women is part of the campaign against Islam. If beating disobedient wives was advocated by Western scientists, it would have been widely supported by the same people who criticize Islam and special centers would have been set up all over the world to train husbands on how to beat their wives.
Hah. He tries to make a point. Here, his hate for the west and his love for an insane ideology emerges. He claims that if Americans advocated the beating of "rebellious" women, then we would set up special centers to train husbands how to beat their wives. This is just so fucking stupid. I don't even know what he's trying to say. The west supports good ideas, and tries to make sure everyone can perform them well? I don't know, maybe. Regardless, it's fucking stupid. He shows his true colors.
This is just a glimpse into the mindset of Muslims. This is normal behavior. This is OK. This is what you do. They actually beat the shit out of their wives about as often as a man might say "Will you please leave me the fuck alone." This is a normal occurrence. It's just the way things are in the Arab world. You beat the shit out of your wife when she's rebellious. When you do this, you're looked upon by your peers as normal and religious.
This is our enemy. This is just a glimpse into the way they think and see the world. This is normal. I cannot stress this enough. When something like this is deemed normal, and commanded by their holy book, is it so hard to understand why they might want to kill infidels? Infidels, being those who don't believe in their God. Is it so hard, just be reading that small passage, as to why they hate America? It's because their beliefs are considered radical, and their holy book is the only truth to them. Wake up, we're not fighting a war on terror. We're fighting a war on an ideology really. A feeling of hate caused by the teaching of the Quran. And it's that feeling of hate that drives a husband and father to fly an airplane into a building, committing the most honorable act he can imagine.
When you're fighting a war, you must identify the leader of the enemy. Osama Bin Laden leads Al Qaeda. Saddam Hussain lead his Baathist regime. The Taliban lead their forces along with Al Qaeda. But here's the truth that needs to be recognized if we're ever going to get out of this mess: Osama Bin Laden, Saddam Hussain, and the Taliban regime were all lead by one person. Allah. And Allah only exists in one form, and that is the Quran.
The Quran is the leader of the war on terror. It may not create an American hating extremist who's willing to kill for their cause out of every follower. What I am certain of is that it does create the possibility of an extremist who's willing to kill for their cause. Maybe 1-3% only become extremists. But out of a billion believers, this is an absolutely massive amount. It's an unorganized Army. And even the non-extreme Muslim has that seed in them, placed by the Quran to become an extremist who will kill.
Can we end Islam? No. Can we end the Quran? No. Can we kill Allah? No. The fact of the matter is, we're fighting a war on terror, and that's just an war that can't be won. You can't fight a religion. Hitler tried, and he's now deemed the most evil man of all time. It's something we could never do. Nor would I even want to see that happen. The only way is to reform the Quran and every Cleric who preaches it. But in the end, that can only achieve limited results.
My conclusion? We're fucked. We are fucked because logically, you cannot fight a belief. You cannot change 1-3% of a billion peoples' idea that we should all die. You can only sustain them, and deal with them the best we can. No more wars. Afghanistan was an absolutely essential war. Iraq would have been had the intelligence not been incorrect. I fully support the continuation of both wars. I truly hope that we are making a huge difference in the security of the United States by fighting these wars. There have been no attacks since 9/11, so that's a sign we're doing something right and that our men and women in Iraq and Afghanistan are keeping us safe. I think the focus should be on homeland security rather than fighting wars, though. I do think fighting the wars is essential, but above that should be homeland security. In the end, I think that will foil more plots than fighting the wars will. The military is the 1st line of defense and our intelligence community along with the FBI and every law enforcement agency in every county in the US are the last defense. And in the end, this is what matters. We don't want to get killed while we're out and about living our lives. And it's a fucking shame that we have to have that slight fear and that constant reminder of 9/11 in the back of our heads because of the attacks on 9/11 because of that fucking Quran. But remember, and this is my main point. The Quran is the leader of leaders of our enemy.












40 Comments:
If you want to end the darkness, bring the light.
If you want to end Islam, bring them Christ.
Evangelization is the only way to end terror.
In 1571, the Muslims were attacking Europe from many directions. They were determined to bring Christianity/Western world to an end. The people in Italy were scared to death. They gathered at St. Peter's square. The Pope asked them to pray the Rosary. On that day, October 7, 1571, The Muslims were defeated at Lepanto's battle.
A hundred years later, the Muslims attacked Vienna. They surrounded the city for 10 years. Vienna was the key city to the Western world. Winning the battle was impossible. The people of Europe relied on prayer. The Polish King, John Subiski, went up a hill and cried out to Mary waving his Rosary. The people of Vienna made processions in the city praying the Rosary. That's when the Muslims were defeated on September 13, 1683.
The Light will overcome Darkness.
We cannot fight the darkness with darkness.
Hitler killed 6 million Jews in the name of Christianity. KKK consider themselves to be fundamental Christians and can pull passages out of the Bible (and out of context) to support what they do. I wonder if judging Islam by the actions of some extreme wacked out people is the same as judging Chritianity by the actions of Hitler and KKK. There are passages in the Bible that explicitely say that women should not speak and should submit to their husbands. There are some fundamentalists that believe this to be taken literally but I think most Christians believe that it speaks to the culture of the time.
Cupcake.
Well, Anonymous beat me to the punch. Angel Anthony apparently forgot about the extremely violent history of Christianity.
The next thing we have to realize is that every religious text is subject to differences in interpretation. It could plainly say that beating your wife or forcing her submission is acceptable in plain Arabic, but their are those who will ignore that and focus on modernization of Islam. On the opposite hand, you will see "fundamentalists" who believe that in order to maintain peace, you must prepare for, and in some cases, instigate war.
Gee, I wouldn't know of any other country that's done that, lately, huh?
I do have to take a moment to defend GW, here, though. At least he came out and declared war openly. He didn't take a bunch of Christian fundamentalists, put them on a plane, and kamikaze the hell out of Iraq or Aghganistan.
But I thought you did pretty good homework, SICK. Not too many people would actually go to the trouble of reading up on their Quran. Hell we have hardcore Christians around here that obviously don't read up on their bible!
Cupcake,
Hitler did not kill 6 million Jews in the name of Christianity. This is not true. He also killed 6 million catholics, most of them priests and nuns.
KKK do not consider themselves to be Christians. Go to their website and see how much they hate Christianity.
So your point is baseless.
Paul said that to the rebellious women not to every woman.
Paul said it not GOD.
Cupcake seems to be PJ. He has the same style.
Brothergrimm,
Violent people can belong to any religion. This is not Matt's point. Matt was talking about the Quran not the people.
Jesus did not incite violence. "Christians" did.
Quran incites violence. Muslims might not.
No, anthony. I am not "cupcake." I do not lie to people and play under another name. Whatever I say, you will know it is me. You don't quite have that special sense that Matt and I have on these things.
PJ
Angel Anthony,
Have you heard of the book of Ephesians??????? Try reading Chapter 5. Is the Bible not the inspired word of God???? Really, Anthony, this is basic Christianity 101. I don't know how to respond to your comments about KKK and Hitler except that you are simply mistaken. By the way, many Christians do not consider catholicism a part of Christianity because of the whole grace issue. What is your background in Christianity? (and please skip the whole angel routine)
Cupcake.
Yeah, We all know exactly who PJ is. We know HE isn't playing under another name.
Cupcake.
Matt,
Let's not forget the Spanish Inquisition!
"The Catholic sovereigns were determined to have a united country, and they did not believe this ambition could be achieved unless all their subjects accepted one religion. This they were determined to bring about through persuasion, if possible, and if not, by force."
I forget exactly where this came from or I would let you know.
Religion is something that wars are going to continously be fought over. That is all there is to it. Just like you said, Matt, you can't win a war against a belief. Therefore these wars will just keep on going. Its unfortunate, but true.
CUPCAKE,
I got the sarcasm. That was a pretty good one. It made me laugh a little. Actually, a lot. You are right. You have no idea who I am, nor do I know you. What I was trying to say is that you and I are not the same person, but that was a good one. I'll give you that one.
PJ-
I am sorry. I thought you were taking a shot at me. I enjoy your posts.
Cupcake.
Cupcake,
WOW Ephesians 5 is awesome. It is beautiful.
"Husbands should love their wives, just as Christ loved the Church and sacrificed himself to her." (Ephesians 5:25).
"Husbands must love their wives as they love their own bodies." (Ephesians 5:28).
Is there more honor that can be given to women in Christianity?
It is awesome, Powerful.
Thank you Cupcake for this chapter.
Of course, you don't know how to respond to my comments about KKK and Hitler because you read Anti-Catholic books without examining the source or the purpose of the author. You ignore history and twist facts to attack the Catholic Church.
I am used to people like you.
The Second World War was not a religious war. It was an ideological war.
The KKK are fighting for their own ethnicity not for religion.
Use your brain to analyse things, not your resentment.
These many Christians who do not consider catholicism a part of Christianity are minority. Everyday they divide against themselves because they have no foundation. Their faith is not build on solid ground. The Catholic Church is huge. It is the biggest denomination in 36 States. In 50 years, it will become the biggest denomination in 50 States. Why? Because people are drawn to Truth. I am not saying that non-catholics have no truth. They do not have the full Truth.
Instead of bringing up old things, bring hope, light, truth.
Cupcake,
you have no Good News to this world. You are stuck to your past, unable to move because of your skepticism.
Your comment about "the Catholic sovereigns" has no sense.
anthony likes to tell people not to read anti-catholic writings. So, is it wrong for us to read the Bible? There sure are a lot of anti-catholic writings to choose from, isn't there? Thousands!!!
PJ
Another thing, pjr (my new name for anthony), where do you get your info on the KKK? If you look at their web site it proves they call themselves christians. They, like you, pjr, really believe they are right in what they believe, no matter how wrong they actually are.
PJ
Anthony-
I think you forgot to take your medication today.
You crazy, dude.
How can anyone say that the KKK or Hitler are not or were not Christians? That's what they call themselves and that's what they believe so why aren't they? Is someone who goes to church every Sunday, prays, reads the bible, and then goes out and cheats on their spouse not a Christian? How about the Catholics that have sex before marriage? Are they not Christian? How about the one's that don't go to church? You can't tell someone they aren't Christian if they believe they are. I would say they are really bad at being Christian, but I can't say that they aren't one. If that was the case then there's sooooo many people in the world that aren't Christians even though they think they are.
James,
If you do not learn from your history, you are bound to repeat it. People keep saying "it was in the past." So what? Everything is in the past. This sentence is now in the past. I am not defending Islam. I am stating that most wars are fought over religion. No matter what kind of religion you have certain extremists. I am not well read on the koran, but it does sound like it teaches more hate than most religions.
PJ
Karissa.
Yes youve got it.
If I call myself a frog and the fact that Im a 6 foot tall mammal without warts or green skin make me a bad frog or not a frog at all?
The point I am making (Im not speaking for Anthony at all...dont even get me started there) is that the comparison is a small fraction of christians or what happened in the dark ages or the Nazis who I am sorry to say were not Christians in any way and did not proclaim to be. They claimed to be god chosen that is a far cry from christianity. In fact there is more than ample evidence of occultism and satan worship within the Reich and in fact with Hitler himself. The Swastika itself is an occult symbol that is a perversion of the christian cross.
Im not sure what the first comment means sure everything is in the past. The reason it is relevant is that we are comparing how Muslims act today with how Christians carried out terror hundreds of years ago.
Think of it this way. I am 38 (damn that sounds old) if I were babbling incoherently and you said you sound stupid and my response was well you did it when you were 2. You see how it sounds a little knee jerk and appples to oranges?
However I solidly agree with you on one point all wars are fought over ideaology.
James and Karissa-
I think I am the one that started this whole Nazi KKK thing. To clarify, I just wanted to make the point that perhaps we should not make inferences about all followers of Islam based on the few crazy extremists, just like it would be incorrect to hold up Hitler and KKK as good examples of Christianity just because they claim they are.
Cupcake.
I draw my conclusions fomr the fact that they sell fucking candy that is in the shape of planes flying into goddamn buildings. That people were dancing in the streets on 9-11. That Osama is the most popular name in the Middle East for a boy since 2001.
I know there are evil people everywhere. Islam is way, way disproportionate.
"Think of it this way. I am 38 (damn that sounds old) if I were babbling incoherently and you said you sound stupid and my response was well you did it when you were 2. You see how it sounds a little knee jerk and appples to oranges?"
This statement is apples to oranges. I fail to see how it applies whatsoever to the discussion.
Anyway, 38 does sound old, huh? It sucks the older you get the faster the years go by. Oh well, you can't stop it.
I think we basically agree but are now just picking. That was awesome what you did with sheeman. I hope they actually get those 10,000 anti-protestors there.
PJ
It applies in exactly the same way.
Matt says Muslims are murderous and someone chimes in well Christians did it 2 centuries ago.
I just want the planet to face up to the enemy here. It isnt extremism. Even mainstream Muslims will always say it is wrong but....
The Muslims understand the battle, all non muslims are the enemy. It is only some of us that dont.
I do think that we have a solid basis of agreement as well.
James-
You are mistaken when you say Nazis did not proclaim themselves to be Christian. They MOST CERTAINLY did! Our current pope was a Nazi when he was a kid with his family. He denounces it now. Also understand that I am not defending Islam because I do not know enough about it. If all of your info comes from the media, I would venture to say that you don't know much about it either.
Cupcake.
Our current pope was a Hitler youth and that has absolutely nothing to do with a proclomation of Christianity at all. He was not pope then he was a child.
What I know about Islam is what I have read in both the Quaran and several other Muslim publications as well as daily reading websites that are Muslim in nature.
Its weird arguing a point with someone who admittedly doesnt know enough about it but assumes others dont either.
You dont have to be a rocket scientist to figure this one out. Just go read the Al Jazeera web site for starters.
After reading back through the thread I think we are arguing semantics of the word Christian.
As I said earlier to say you are a frog doesnt make you one. To say you are a Christian and then turn around and murder millions...well it kinda speaks for itself.
Hitler stated a belief in God and that he was divinely backed and doing the Lords work. Nearly all serious scholars believe that this was not as much a deep belief in anything as much as a bid to attract the loyalty of the Christian Social Party which was powerful at the time. In other words propaganda.
Even if one were to take these statements at face value. Statement of belief in God and that you are doing the Lords work is not equivalant of being Christian. As the bible itslef says A a man is known by his deeds.
Sorry Matt to talk scriptures here.
Just because these people proclaim themselves to be Islamic does not mean that they are good Muslims or speak for the rest of the Muslim world.
Then who does? Give me a source because everyone I can find including a Muslim I personally know says different. So far all I hear is people saying what you are but no real source or proof. The proof to me comes in the fact that when there is a murder of an abortion doctor there is an overwhelming response from Christians saying its wrong and unjustified. When terrorists attack us there is none. A few halfhearted apologies that as I said are usually laced with the "but" statements. My favorite is the Council of Islamic affairs who says that "the taking oif innocent life is wrong" What a ruse the catch is that according to the Quoran non Muslims are not innocent and therefore dont apply. Ill be sated when I hear a President of a MAJOR Muslim organization or country say that the terrorists are just that and that killing in the name of their religion is wrong for any reason.
Al Jezeera is about as good a news source as CNN. You would be better off watching SpongeBob Square Pants for your news.
On what do you base this? Al Jazeera is the most popular news source in the Muslim world according to daily circulation numbers. Also popular among Muslim readers are The Daily Star and Arabia.com. It is also important to note that these are state owned news sources so presumably their voice would represent that of their respective governments.
I guess it boils down to this if these Muslims arent mainstream then the ones who are need to stand up with a loud voice and say so and not only that but dirve the ones who are out of their countries and quit harboring them. So far all I have is a few peoples word for it and sorry but I need proof.
I enjoyed the discussion though, thanks.
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James-
"The Swastika itself is an occult symbol that is a perversion of the christian cross."
I don't know if that's true, but I know that Hitler didn't start it. It was used way before Hitler ever got his hands on it. Before Hitler it was used positively. Our own American troops wore it in WWI, which I just found out actually. I found a good website that talks about it:
http://history1900s.about.com/cs/swastika/a/swastikahistory.htm
I'm not trying to argue with you about what you said there since I don't even know if I agree with it or not. I just don't want people to think that the swastika was a creation of Hitler or anything. I'm not saying you do, but others who read it might.
James,
I am impressed with the truth you spoke. I am dancing now.
I didn't know you are deep.
You see things in an objective way without getting your religious feelings or prejudices involved.
Congratulations.
You are a trustworthy person.
You are right to say that the Nazis claimed to be god chosen.
All ideologies were replacing God.
Look at Saddam Hussein before his fall. He was a god. You would see his huge portrait on every corner in Iraq before 2003.
Look at Bachar Assad (the Syrian President). He is a god. You can see his gigantic pictures in Damascus.
Stalin, Hitler, and north Korean president... and many others who behave as if they were god.
This little cupcake has never been in an arab country. I visited some arab countries. I am going in September to an arab country.
The Muslim world is a totally different system. To understand it, we cannot see it through our system here. There is no comparison.
Matt is realistic. He asked this important question: Who is the enemy today? He didn't say who was the enemy 2 centuries ago? Who cares?
Today, we have an enemy. Identify him and find out how to defeat it.
Defend your present to assure your future.
But PJ, cupcake, and Karissa, remind me of these sterile movements like ACLU and others.
I recommend, cupcake, to go live a few months in an arab country.
But don't trust much because your head might be chopped off. Some people trusted them like Nick Berg. He had to face a gruesome death.
Cupcake and PJ,
try to see things without allowing religious prejudices be involved.
I know you hate the Catholic Church. No problem. But if you want to give a trustworthy comment, first put your hatred aside so that you can see things as they are, not as you want to see them.
The point of James is really powerful. "Then who does?" James said. "Give me a source because everyone I can find including a Muslim I personally know says different."
Yes, where is the Muslim voice of tolerance? Can you hear it? Does it exist? This thing raises a lot of questions.
Anthony-
You keep saying that I hate Catholics. I have never said anything against them. Please reread the posts and you will see that you have me confused with someone else. I think PJ, Carissa and I are the tolerant ones by the way. I have said time and again that I am not well versed on Islam. I took a 9 week course on Islam and the more I learn, the more I find I don't know. You and James are the self proclaimed experts, not me.
James-
Your point about no one in the Islamic world standing up and denouncing this is well taken. You are right.
Cupcake.
Karissa,
True that the swastika has been used through history to represent different things to different people. Within the Reich it was used to symbolize power which is the connotation given to by Indian Mystics wich evolved over the years into occultism. Thx for the link, had some interesting facts about the issue. One thing they dont tell you though is that almost all other uses of the swastika were reversed and had the opposite meaning which was peace and goodness.
Anthony
Dont agree with me it doesnt help ;)
Cupcake
Im not an expert. Im just reporting what I observe. I wish people would stand up and denounce it. If you read my blog you would see that I recently had a post stating that I am opomistic of some signs I see in the Muslim world. They are starting to recognize that terrorists are killing them too. There is no room for moderates in current Islam. The hardcore in the religion see them as enemies as well (see latest attack on Egypt and those in Iraq). I think you are starting to get a spark of that dissent that needs to come from them.
"But if you want to give a trustworthy comment, first put your hatred aside so that you can see things as they are, not as you want to see them."
Give me an example of where I did this, pjr.
Don't talk about statues and large pictures. Look at the walls of your church before you say ignorant things.
PJ
Wow, what an interesting debate. I'm only going to respond to the main points you guys made because well, theres a lot.
Anthony
Evangelization is not the answer, nor is it even a remote possibility. It's an impossibility. I'm sure it would be ideal to an extreme religious person like yourself to passify the Muslims with your brand of religion, but it's just nowhere close to possible and nowhere close to a good idea.
Cupcake
You're comparing apples to watermelons. Hitler was one extremist who was brilliant enough to become prime minister, and then convinced the people to combine the offices of chancelor and prime minster, creating a position of an almighty ruler. This shows how just one brilliant religious extremist can cause a holocaust. But then again, the reasons for the holocaust are widely disputed. I personally don't believe it had anything to do with the fact that jews don't believe in Jesus. Hitler was smarter and more complex than that.
As for the KKK, they don't hate blacks because of any word in the bible. They hate blacks because somehow, they got it in their head that they're better than an entire race based upon the color of their skin. It has absolutely nothing to do with religion. Most just happen to be Christians.
The bible doesn't spawn maniacs in the way the quran does. The quran creates the mindset of an extremist, and any one event or any random number of events could turn a moderate Muslim into a killer, just because of what the Quran teaches. It plants the seed of extremism.
Brothergrimm
You just don't understand Islam. You see, you're comparing apples to watermelons here. Islam is not like Christianity. Islam is a very radical and strict religion in and of itself. Muslims aren't anything like Christians in the sense that they take this that way and that this way. It's not like that in Islam, and the Quran isn't filled with riddles like the Bible is. There are moderate Muslims and extremists. They're all "fundamentalists." If you aren't a fundamentalist in Islam, then you're an infidel and you clearly don't understand the teachings of Allah.
Like I said, Islam is not the typical religion. You may understand Christianity, but until you've read the Quran and argued with people who would like to see the destruction of America, then you just won't understand. I thought I knew a lot until I was informed that Muslims believe the Quran is the bible rewritten by Allah.
I do my homework. I don't argue anything until I know something about it. The other day when you commented on fossil fuels, I did a bit of research before I started typing. It's essential if you want to be taken seriously. I was reading your blogger profile, and it seems we share a very similar taste in music. I'm glad you're readingand I appreciate the comment.
Anthony
Anthony, have you been hitting the crack pipe? Could you point me to the time in history that documents Hitler slaughtering 6 million Catholics? I didn't even know 6 million priests and nuns existed. Fictional history, Anthony.
You sort of point out one of my points. The Bible is a non violent book of fictional stories. The Quran is a viciously violent book filled with more commands from God than lessons. I don't believe the Bible has the ability to easily create a murderer out of an honest person quite like the Quran does.
Cupcake
Just like I said, we're fucked. The only real solution is to put our focus on hardcore homeland security and hardcore PRIVACY INVASION of the people who are known to be terrorists. Muslims. Maybe when another 1000 people are killed in a single attack, we might doing that. Or maybe some president with a sack will come along and do it. Who knows.
Anthony
Thank you Anthony for pointing out that lovely contrast between Christianity and Islam. Anyone who reads the site often knows I dislike religion as a whole, and while I greatly dislike Christianity just because it's so inane, I will give it credit for not being a religion of hate and violence like Islam. So in that sense, I appreciate the contrast.
You are also correct when you say they are fighting for their own race. Although, the KKK is all but dead in this day and age, the racists that do exist and share their beliefs behind closed doors hate blacks simply because they believe they are better. Religion is not the cause of this belief. I doubt the writers of the bible even saw black people in that day.
I'll have to disagree with you on one point Anthony. I don't believe Catholic church is growing. I believe Christianity as a whole is fading slowly but surely. Comapre 1900 to 2000. An open Atheist would be shunned by the entire community, and would probably be forced out of town. 1000 years from now, people of that time will look at those of you who believe in religion in the same way we look at the ancient Greeks for believing in Zeus, and the Gods of Olympus. It's true.
PJ
Anthony is a die hard Catholic. He'll defend them until the day he dies.
Anonymous
If you think Anthony is crazy, you should check out his delightful blog at goodnewsformatt.blogspot.com , It's pretty entertaining, to say the least.
James
Neanderthal caveman with clubs. Exactly right. These people in the middle east are primitive savages and only understand one thing; their god.
Excellent points, James. And yes, I would like to beat the guy who wrote this article as well. Lightly, of course.
Karissa
Well, Hitler was a Christian, but like I said somewhere up there, he was just one brilliant extremist. And it's sad that one brilliant extremist was able to dupe all of Germany. Actually, it doesn't surprise me come to think of it.
As for the KKK, I think this whole KKK extremist thing is being pushed to hard as a point for this day and age. They're so obscure now in 2005. With every generation, the blind hate ends. Some KKK racists may be Christians, but their religion does not compel them to hate. Thanks for the comment Karissa.
PJ
Not every religion has extremists. When was the last time you heard about a Hindu randomly killing people? I am by no means defending Christianity historically. Historically, more people have died because of religion than any other reason. The Christians and the Muslims are to blame.
But now we're in modern times. Christianity isn't really a problem anymore. Sure, they have an extremist here and there who want to blow up abortion clinics. But in modern times, Christian extremists are extremely rare. Americans evolve very quickly compared to the rest of the world.
The Muslim world, however, does not evole. They still make their women where bircas. They still can't drive cars in most countries. When was it, the 30's that women won the right to vote in the US? That was 70 years ago, and I'll bet in another 70 years women will still be treated like sub-humans in middle eastern countries under Islamic law. I know this much, I rarely see women in the US who will not wear pants because of the words in the bible. Apples and watermelons, PJ.
James
I'll admit that I don't know that much about the how's and why's of Hitlers actrocities. I haven't done a lot of research on Nazism or the history thereof. I do know that the swastika is a twisted cross. So how that fits in with Hitler being a Christian boggles me. I'll just assume you're right, because you usually are about things like this.
And that is the argument for Islam. You can't justify the bad behavior of Islam with more bad behavior from Christianity. And that bad behavior is in another century. Very good point.
Cupcake
I understand the point you're trying to make, and it's not necessarily an illogical one. I used to be of that same mindset. That was until I really got to work on understanding Islam and reading the Quran. It's a book of hate, and comparing the Bible and the Quran is comparing a sheep and a wolf. In fact, a Muslim I once talked to wo was somwhere between and extremist and a moderate explained to me that Christianity, because of its very nature, passifies the believer, and this is why Islam is so powerful. He even went on to say that if Africans were Islamic, there would have never been slaves in the United States because they would have never allowed themselves to live lives of servitude. So like I keep saying, you have to read the Quran to understand. It's apples and watermelons.
If 1 out of every 10,000 Christians is an extremist (random number), then 1 out of every 10 Muslims are extremists. This is the way things are simply because of the very nature of the Quran. It's hate-filled and violent.
James
I too remember the Palestinians dancing in the street on 9/11, and I also remember seeing a picture of the tsunami victims recovering and seeing a man with an Osama shirt. He's a pop culture icon in the middle east. People just have to read the Quran to understand. I wish my computer wasn't still being fixed. I have a whole text file full of quotes that I gathered myself on what the Quran says Muslims should do to infidels. Decapitation is a prominent suggestion. And don't be sorry for posting some scriptures. Sometimes, its essential to properly make a point. Like Anthony, I was glad he posted that verse becuase it showed a good contrast between the two religions as to how they should treat their wives.
Cupcake
Al Jazeera is the Fox News of the middle east though. The extremists certainly are a minority, but there are just so many of them because of the magnitude of Islam. My whole point is that the Quran is inherently evil. The Quran always plants the seed of extremism in every Muslim man and women. Very rarely does it not. Most people live their lives with that seed being dorment. For others, it becomes active and they feel compelled to kill us. It really depends on the region. You just really have to read the Quran.
Karissa
Very interesting information. Like I said, it's amazing how one brilliant, but insane religious extremist can actually make a solid attempt at completely eradicating an entire religion. The German people allowed it, though.
msbrooksie
I also agree that many religious people, mostly the hardcores like Anthony don't have a mind of their own and only speak of what they were raised to believe. I definitely agree. But I wouldn't say it's just people who hide behind their god's beliefs. I'd say it's the hardcores who know no other reality other than what their holy book projects.
Anthony
James is very good at seperating religious beliefs and opinions. You're sort of good at it too sometimes, especially when it comes to topics involving science. You're also right about tyrants. They do have a funny way of emulating a God.
You go too far though when you thros PJ, Cupcake, and Karissa in the ACLU bucket. They are far from it. They just don't agree with me on the very nature of Islam. That doesn't put them anywhere near the ACLU type beliefs.
Nick Berg, Daniel Pearl, Paul Johnson, these people were slaughtered directly because of what the Quran demanded. Anyone know Daniel Pearls' last words? I do, I do! "I'm a jew." He proclaimed that he was an infidel, and he was quickly decapitated. Anyone who would like to see the brutality of Islam can head on over to www.ogrish.com or www.michaelsavage.com and see what it looks like when a living, breathing human being sudden has their head sawed off because of what the Quran says. Go look at those videos, and see if you still feel the same about Islam.
Cupcake
Don't mind Anthony. He often paints with very broad strokes. I don't think he means to be offensive. Like I said above, you have to really get into the Quran and read it to understand. I have an actualy paperback version along with an ebook version. It's amazing how many delightful passages you can find just be searching through the document with the word "infidel" or "kill." To top it off, watch a video of an American being beheaded. When you see that, you'll understand what extremism is all about. Then when you read the Quran and see the two passages about cutting the heads off infidels, you'll understand that their holy book is responcible for creating the men who do this.
And of course, I think everyone is in agreement with the fact that the Islamic world barely condemns terrorism by Muslims. If you think about the possible reasons as to why this is, it becomes all the more apparent as to what's really going on with this religion.
Very good discussion. The people who comment on my site are very smart, and make a lot of logical points compared to the comments I see on every other blog I troll around and read. It's quite impressive.
"I know this much, I rarely see women in the US who will not wear pants because of the words in the bible. Apples and watermelons, PJ."
Now you made me have to disagree with you, Matt. What did you do that for? Just because *you* don't see them doesn't mean they don't exist. Where I went to high school it was about an 80% population of people who went to the apolstolic church. These women were not allowed to wear pants. They were not allowed to show their ankles. It is a very strict religion. No TV, nothing. They also did not believe in competition, so the kids waited until after high school to join the church so they could still play sports or be cheerleaders. They are out there, Matt.
As far as the KKK. It might be on the decline, but it is still out there as well. I am not proud of this, but my state is the main KKK state in the nation. I live next to a town where the grand dragon lives.
I am not disagreeing with you on Islam. I said I do not know enough about it, but I would venture to say it is more about hate than any other religion.
The whole point I was trying to make is there are a lot of idiots in this world. Most of them use a religion to defend themselves. Whether it be christianity, muslim, or whatever. Yes, you are right that it is a lot easier to use Islam as a defense because of its teachings, but there are crazy people from every religion.
PJ
"there are crazy people from every religion"
I agree with you 100% PJ.
P.J.-
I'm with you 100% too on your entire last post.
Matt-
I just feel a need to clarify(so I don't get struck down by lightning or something) I am a Christian. I love the message from the Bible. When I was comparing Islam to Christianity I was trying to point out that there are things in the Bible that can be interpreted as treating women like second class citizens if you want to interpret them that way. (By the way, Anthony quoted 2 verses out of the entire chapter and left out the part he knew I was talking about).
Cupcake.
msbrooksie, you sound like such a happy person. It is obvious you have so much love in you already, you do not need God.
SARCASM
Karissa
There are crazy people from every religion, from every country, from every state, from every county, and from every town. There's crazy people everywhere.
It just so happens that in every instance, there are certain hotbeds that have more crazies than others. Seattle sure has a lot of crazies. San Francisco has a lot of crazies. California has a lot of crazies. Compare California to Texas, and you will find 10 times more crazies than Texas. Compare Islam to Christianity, and you will find 10 times more crazies than Christianity.
Anthony
That all seems like babble to me. If you actually directed me to a non-religious source of this alleged historical event, I might believe it. But I don't. Sure, I believe Hitler killed many Pols. But he didn't systematically kill 5 million Catholics, like you claim. Point me to an encyclopedia or a text book, and I'll believe it.
Cupcake
Anthony has a way of doing that sometimes. I'm curious to know what passage you were referring to. I think the parts Anthony showed definitely point out the contrast between a peaceful (yet stupid) religion and a hateful (just as stupid) religion.
msbrooksie
You echo my beliefs. I used to believe in a God, only because I thought I was supposed to. I thought it was the normal thing. I didn't really get into the whole church thing and the whole saving your soul ritual until I was about 13. It took less than a year for me to realize the bible was bullshit. The more I read, the more I realized that this was simply unbelievable shit and I was so amazed, at age 13, that anyone believed it. I thought I was an enlightened genius at 13, you can only imagine how big my ego is now.
One thing you point out makes a lot of sense, and this is one of my key arguments against Christianity. You can do whatever you want in life, but if you repent and wash away your sins before you die, you're going to heaven. It's a permission slip, given by a prist or pastor, to behave any which way you want, just as long as you repent before death.
People who lack an "internal God" will end up killing people, and molesting little boys and girls without a problem, because they know that their God will forgive them. It's pretty hard to have an internal God and a "real" God. The internal God, which I really like to call "Jiminy Cricket", is 10 times more powerful than any real God. Why is that? Because if that internal God is truly there inside of you, then it will always prevent you from commiting horrible acts, and it will always help you to make the best choices in life. It actually communicates with you and you can actually have a conversation in your mind with it. A conscience. Many religious people lack this entity, or if they do have it, its all but blacked out by the teachings of their own God.
I'm glad you shared your opinion. I can tell you're pretty pissed off at the notion that people believe in an almighty loving God who allows tsunamis and terrorist attacks to occur. I hear you loud and clear.
Anonymous
Since you were being sarcastic, that would mean you're implying that she is filled with hate? Where's your brain at? She's filled with passion, and probably anger at the fact that people believe in a God that has allowed atrocities to occur on his watch. That's pretty reasonable, I think. Don't you know how many atheists 9/11 created?
Here's what you need: A free will and a mind that you control. Impossible though. It's what happens when any belief is forced upon you from the day you could talk.
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Why'd you delete that comment, Anthony? I was going to reply to it. It was really good.
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