August 15, 2005

The Wiccan V, The Christian City Counsil

Here's a great story coming out of Great Falls, North Carolina. This is an illustration of what can happen when people in power start bring their religious beliefs into play.

Darla Wynne, who is apparently a Wiccan Priestess, whatever the fuck that is, has stirred up a whole lot of shit in this small town of 2,200. You see, sometimes when people who share different religious beliefs contrary to the big popular one get pissed off, you can have a very big problem on your hands.

The city council of Great Falls were praying, and using the name of Jesus Christ in these prayers before all meetings. This is a clear breach of the 1st amendment. And this Wiccan, while goofy as fuck, got pretty pissed off about it and sued. She won.

The damages to the town? $18,000. Those were the legal fees that Miss Wynne incurred. But it gets a whole lot better. You see, these local asshole politicians, these elected officials who take an oath to adhere to the constitution of the United States of America took it all the way to the supreme court. The supreme court told them to fuck off, and wouldn't hear their case. This process took two years. At this point, they are now responsible for $65,000 worth of legal fees. In cases like this, 9 times out of 10, the legal fees get paid. That lawsuit for those fees has recently been filed.

$65,000 is 7& of Great Falls' annual budget. Way to go assholes. Way to piss away the taxpayer's hard earned money. All for what they believed was the right to hold prayer before government meetings. This baffles me on just so many levels. I mean, I literally hate everyone in this story. The Wiccan is the "good guy", but she still sucks because she's a Wiccan.

First off, these people took an oath. All elected officials swear to adhere to the constitution. Even police officers take the oath. Yet they still knowingly broke the 1st amendment. If they're willing to break the 1st amendment, what's to stop these politicians from engaging in illegal activities? Like money laundering, racketeering, extortion, bribery, etc. Not a goddamn thing.

Then, after they lose their case, they have the fucking nerve to keep fighting. Don't forget about their legal fees. That's even more taxpayer money. It should come out of their pockets. Not the citizens of North Carolina and Great Falls. That isn't right at all. How about all of the local Churches help pay both legal fees? Hmm? Isn't that fair and just?

And this fucking lawyer. What a greedy piece of shit. He knows what he's doing. He knows he can charge an absurd amount of money and get it all back from the taxpayer. These degenerate politicians may be the cause of all of this, but it shouldn't be over a $65,000 problem. But that's greed for you. All this asshole had to do was read the 1st amendment. That's all it takes. $65,000 for a simple civil liberties case? It's bullshit, and he knows exactly what he's doing and the greed makes me sick, because he knows what he's doing and he knows he, in all reality, is the one who's stealing from the taxpayer.

And now we come to this fucking Wiccan Priestess... What the fuck? I think the idea of any religion is dumb. Of all the religions, Wicca is about the most asinine of them all. I mean, it's one thing to believe in a God. It's another to believe in the secret power of mother nature, and to believe the Earth is alive and all that fucking goofy jazz. However, Wiccans, while extremely bizarre, seem to be smarter than the average Christian.

If these Christians had even a slight amount of intelligence, they would know that they got caught with their hand in the cookie jar and would have stopped the prayer bullshit when the lawsuit was first filed. But no, they didn't do that. They kept on, and kept on, and kept on fighting. All based upon their religious beliefs. Not their interpretation of the constitution, but their religious beliefs. They want to be able to pray in the city council meetings. But our constitution just doesn't allow that sort of thing. How they could not know this is beyond me. Why they would keep fighting when they know they are absolutely wrong is beyond me. They prove their stupidity.

And at the same time, they're opposed by a Wiccan who is pissed off. These Christians don't realize that just because they believe in the popular religion doesn't mean they can impose it on other people, or share those beliefs or religious rituals where they have absolutely no place. The Wiccan knew this, and exposed them. She won, because she was smarter and kept on fighting.

All while these fine city officials wasted $65,000 which they will eventually have to pay to the Wiccan, not to mention their own legal fees. Way to go assholes. In the name of God. Way to piss away hard earned tax money.

9 Comments:

Blogger Matt The Sick posted:

Thanks for the compliment, I appreciate it. :) It's pretty fun for me too. I'm glad I'm entertaining you. Thanks for the comment Brooksie.

3:59 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous posted:

Hey Matt,

I think this nation needs to relearn its history. We were founded on the basis that the church and state were to be seperate. This is the entire reason we started this country to begin with. We are free to believe whatever we want to believe. I have my beliefs, Jews have theirs, catholics have theirs, and so on and so on. Which one of our beliefs should be the law? Our forefathers put together a constitution which they intended for us to follow. It is a fair and just set of laws. It does not hinder religious freedom, yet at the same time it does not let religion rule. We all know most wars are fought over religion. Our leaders knew this as well. That is why we are the greatest nation. We have learned from others (and our) mistakes when it came to situations like this. We are to keep church and state seperate. If I am offended by the way you say your prayers, I will not attend your church. If you don't like the way I pray, don't attend my church. We shouldn't have to harbor ill feelings in a city hall or a school because of the way someone wants us all to pray. This was happening to us before. This is why we crossed the ocean and began a new world.

A lot of people might think I am saying these things to be PC. I say these things because of what I have said before....I do not want someone telling me I have to pray to a god I do not believe in, so why should I tell them to do the same?

Peace be with us,

PJ

8:22 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous posted:

Those Christians who did this certainly lack wisdom.

I don't understand why people feel offended by the way other people say their prayers.

PJ said that if he was offended by the way someone says his prayers, he will not attend his church.
This is absolutely disrespectful.
In what world do we live in?
I am a Catholic and I like to see how other people pray (Jews, Hindus, etc...)I never felt offended. This is people's way to get connected with their Creator.

If you do not agree with their beliefs, it's OK, say a prayer the way you say it.

When I invite my friends for a meal--some are Jews, atheists, muslims--I ask each one of them to say something before the meal, each one the way he wants.

Why do people find difficulty in reconciling religion to their daily lives?

We should learn and take wisdom from every religion and put it into practice.

Don't impose your religion (Christianity, Islam, Atheism, ...) on me.
Rather
Offer your religion to me. If there's something good, I'll take it, if not, I'll throw it.
Ken

10:31 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous posted:

Ken,

I fail to see how this is "absolutely disrespectful." It is common sense. I do not believe the same as you, nor do I pray the same as you, therefore I do not attend the same church as you. If you have no problem with the way your friends pray, maybe you should change your religion.

"If you do not agree with their beliefs, it's OK, say a prayer the way you say it."

That is my point, Ken.

"We should learn and take wisdom from every religion and put it into practice."

You should learn more about the different religions before you say something like this. Matt, you can teach him some of what the Koran says.

"Don't impose your religion (Christianity, Islam, Atheism, ...) on me.
Rather
Offer your religion to me. If there's something good, I'll take it, if not, I'll throw it."

So do you agree with the lady in the story or not? Is it offering or imposing your religion when you go to a public building and have to listen to people praying? I believe in this instance it is imposing. Offering would be inviting someone to church with you to show them what you believe. This way they have a choice.

PJ

10:59 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous posted:

I'm sorry, it is not common sense.
If you fail to see it disrespectful, how do you interact with your neighbors or your in-laws who might belong to a different religion?
What do you do if your son-in-law invites you to his wedding in a Sikh temple, will you refuse to go, because "I do not believe the same as you, nor do I pray the same as you, therefore I do not attend the same church as you."

What a piece of shit are you.

If I have friends who belong to different beliefs, that doesn't mean I need to change my religion.
I know my own faith, this is why I am not afraid of others.
Jesus talked to the Samaritan woman, to the Roman soldier, to the Canaanite woman, and to many who had different beliefs.

Wise people do not go to public places and begin to pray like hypocrites, unless they have permission from authorities.

The story above is about show off and pride. It is not about faith.

When you talk about your Faith, this is not imposing, this is proclaiming something beautiful.

I'll give you an example:
Matt went to Disney World. He might have experienced something exciting in ... let's say Universal Studios. He came back home and told his friends, "Hey guys, you gotta go and experience what I have experienced there. WOW. It was awesome. I recommend it."
What Matt said was not imposing. It was telling good news to his friends, because he experienced something powerful and he would like his friends to have the same experience.

BUT if Matt rents a bus and forces his friends to leave their jobs, wives, pets, mistresses, and go to universal studios --- This is imposing.

A christian does not impose but offers and recommends what he experiences with the graces Jesus Christ gave him.
Sorry for the language but you pissed me off.
Ken

1:56 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous posted:

You are aweful quick to anger, Ken. "Sorry for the language but you pissed me off." Have you no self control? You seem to be arguing my points for me. When you let anger take control of you it is hard to reason.

I am not saying I dislike these other religions. I am saying in a public place I should not have to be subject to it (which is what the original post is all about). When I go to a catholic church I am respectful and pray my own prayers. I am not "offended" by it, I just believe you pray wrong. Therefore, I do not make a hobby of going to catholic churches. Do you understand?

First you say, "*Don't impose* your religion (Christianity, Islam, Atheism, ...) on me.
Rather
Offer your religion to me. If there's something good, I'll take it, if not, I'll throw it."......Then you say, "A christian *does not impose* but offers and recommends what he experiences with the graces Jesus Christ gave him." There is just something about catholicism and double-talk. They seem to go hand in hand.

Let me get this straight...It is only imposing if you are forced to do something, correct? So, if it were illegal for Matt to recommend any theme parks at a public hearing yet he says "Hey guys, you gotta go and experience what I have experienced there. WOW. It was awesome. I recommend it." at a public hearing, is it imposing or offering? You have to compare apples to apples. Not religion to theme parks.

Calm down, Ken. It seems to block your reasoning abilities.

PJ

2:37 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous posted:

Get your shit out of my face.

It is worse to say, "I am not "offended" by it, I just believe you pray wrong."

You visit people's temples carrying with you prejudices like 'you pray wrong'. Who told you Catholics pray wrong?
Who said Hindus pray wrong or Muslims pray wrong?
What do you know about prayer Mr PJ?
Prayer is a connection with the Creator. Each person expresses this in a different way.

When I go to a protestant or Jewish or whatever temple, I go with an open heart, not with "You pray wrong".

Where is the contradiction between the first saying and the second?
You see contradictions because you are a man of extremes and you never knew the narrow path which Jesus taught us to follow.

I'm fine with my "reasoning abilities".
Thank you for your concerns.
Ken

4:06 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous posted:

"You see contradictions because you are a man of extremes and you never knew the narrow path which Jesus taught us to follow."

Is the narrow path wide enough for everyone to enter? Again Ken, you prove yourself wrong. You say God wants us to follow a "narrow path." How come you follow a wide path where everyone is correct with their beliefs? Are satanists correct in their beliefs? When they have rituals to satan do you enjoy watching them become closer to their ruler? The Bible teaches us certain things, I won't get into it here, that contradict the way catholics pray. I believe in the Bible. If you pray contradictory to the Bible, I think you are wrong. If you believe in the Bible you too should see how you are wrong.

Again, I will try to make this more simple for you....If I thought all of your beliefs were correct, I would be a catholic. If you thought all of the jewish beliefs were correct, you would be a jew. Therefore, you think jewish people are wrong on some things. Can you atleast admit that? Or will that be close minded of you?

I understand the priests do not read from the Bible that much during your mass, so do me a favor and open the Bible yourself to read. If you say you believe it, learn it. Don't let someone tell you what is in the Bible, find out for yourself.

PJ

4:46 PM  
Anonymous Anonymous posted:

The narrow path is to love, respect, and understand all people.
It is to respect their religious feelings, their expressions, their worship.

I am a happy person because I have no problem meeting with people who have different beliefs.

If there's an act that violates the Universal values like "Killing", "stealing", etc... then I'll speak out.


Catholics do not contradict the Bible. It is you who reads the Bible with a fundamentalist mind.

Catholics are the most faithful to the Bible. That doesn't mean that I do not like other christian churches. I love them all. But I respect the Catholic Church for its faithfulness to the Word of God.

Jesus did not ask us to believe in the Bible. He asked us to believe in the Father and in the one He sent, Jesus Christ.

You seem to be attached to the letter, but I won't judge you. I will not avoid meeting you. I won't say, "you are wrong", but I will respect your level of maturity.

I don't see people the way you see them "right" or "wrong". I see them simply as people who are in search for the truth, whether they are atheist, hindus, whatever.

When an atheist says to me "I don't believe in God. Where is He?", I trust him. I know he is honest. He truly isn't able to see God.
When a protestant says to me "we don't believe that the bread and wine become the Body and Blood of Christ", I trust him. I know he is honest. He truly isn't able to experience the real Presence of Christ in the "Body" & "Blood".

So, change the color of your glasses my friend, so that you can see.

By the way, the priests do read from the Bible during mass, but there is something more important.
The issue is not "how much you read the Bible?" (quantity). The issue is "how you read the Bible" (quality).
Ciao Bello
Ken

9:50 PM  

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