My Epiphany
Basically, I found God. It's true, and let's talk about faith for a minute. Every person on this planet has their own unique belief and interpretation of the word of their God. No two Muslims will agree 100% on the interpretation of the Quran. No two Christians will agree 100% on every word in the Bible or interpret everything the same. Because of this fact, we are left with an interesting result. "God" is unique to every person who believes in it.
No two people have the exact same image of God. Every person has their own unique understanding and belief. However, there is one question that can never be known for sure to the man or woman of faith. Wether you believe in Allah, God, Jesus Christ, Mohammad, Buddha, or Yahweh, there is one ultimate question that the believer will never know. If your God created everything we on Earth, and controls everything, then who created him? Where did he come from? Who is his God? Even the idea of "him" or "her" is a strange one when dealing with the concept of al almighty supreme controller of the universe.
I figured it out though, and it's really quite simple. Often times, people will make have these epiphanies when something extreme is displayed in a simple way, or happens in a simple way. Meet the creator of God.
This is God. It is undisputable and factual if you know the power of our brains. I made this simple realization that I haven't even fully comprehended yet while holding a Polymer Preserved human brain in my hands. I was literally standing there, holding a human brain saying "holy fuck." Not just because it was a brain, but because I my own brain was getting these solutions and answers before even knowing the problem. I'm working backwards here, trying to find these problems and questions that this epiphany has answered.
You see, you have to understand just how powerful the brain it. It is God. Physically, it is the God of your body. It rules you, it controls you, and you control it. The potential of the human brain is infinite. 1000 years ago, would the people of that day actually believe that what I'm able to do right now with my thoughts and this keyboard was possible? The potential of the human brain made this possible.
And the creator of God; isn't it obvious? Take a look around in the world we live in. Focus, and take in everything you see. Everything you look at was created by the human brain. Not God, folks. None of em. Because in the end, the idea of a God and the idea of a supreme being who is in control of everything is just another creation of the human brain. It's just as simple as the computer you're using to read this. While it is a complex device, it was still created by the human brain. More than likely, a team of brains. The same applies to everything you look at, including that Bible or that Quran.
If you can step outside of your own religious belief for a moment, and be unafraid to make the realization, you just might see that the human brain is more powerful and real than religion ever has or ever can be. Your brain is with you right now, and it's working hard to understand what I'm saying. What's your God doing? Perhaps he's working on another natural disaster. I suppose he's in a phase right now where he just can't get enough of killing mass amount of those people he supposedly loves and who he will always protect and forgive. The Asian Tsunami, Katrina, Pakistani Earthquake, Iraqi bridge collapse, etc. This mass death is everywhere. Give it up. Just stop it.
As a society, we need to evolve. After more than 2000 years of intelligent "modern" life, we are generations upon generations behind. We should be taking vacations to other galaxies by now. This failure to evolve is primarily the result of an absolutely restricting and unnecessary belief. There is no God who spoke to Mohammed and there is no God who impregnated Mary with his son. There is only one God, and it is the God who created Islam and the God who created Christianity. The human brain, folks. It's an idea that snow balled. Nothing more, nothing less. Wake up and stop the preying and the studying of religion. Stop wasting your precious time on Earth. Your life is not infinite. When you die, you're gone. That's the end of the story and there will never be a sequel.
Stop wasting your time and start believing in yourself. Forget about the idea of a deity or a God. I understand it's a comforting idea, and it is especially difficult or maybe even impossible to forget an idea when it's imprinted onto your brain from the moment you can talk an understand words. It's like poisoning the water, like an enemy within, and like HIV to the body. What you need to take control of is being controlled by something you have no access to. A circumstance you may not be able to change, depending on your upbringing. However, I do understand that the idea of a God is comforting and makes live a lot easter. I know it's nice going through life believing that your life will never truly end. It's the best lie to believe. It must also be nice never feeling alone. Whenever you want to talk to someone, they're there to pray to.
But at the end of the day, and in reality, you're talking to the floor. In reality, you're believing an absurd lie. Wake up and pay attention to the one and only true God that we know for a fact exists. That brain inside your skull. You can figure out a plan and apply it when it comes to this issue of vacationing in other galaxies. Really, you can. You may not want to, but that brain of yours has the strength and power to do it. If you're young enough, you just might have enough time to plan it and start applying it while trusting others to see it through succession.
This doesn't happen though. Your brains are controlled by that idea of religion. It's like a strangle hold on your potential and freedom. You could be so much more than you really are, but religion and lack of understanding is stopping you. You can be successful and religious, and believe in the lie. But you will never be as good as you could be. If you lived life according to true word of your God, you would not survive. So stop believing the lie and wake the fuck up. Realize that God is in you. You are your own God. That idea you have of God... take everything you know of his power, and apply it to yourself. That's you, and that God lives right inside your skull. It can create a brand new earth if it wanted. Human potential and infinite and anything is possible.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that society needs to stop wasting their life. I mean, the human brain is the most powerful thing that ever has been or ever will be, but human life is probably the most precious thing that ever has or ever will. Human life is the existence of your brain. It's an hourglass and when your time's up, you're done. No overtime, no extra innings, and no sudden death. Knowing this fact, don't waste the precious time. Live life the way you want to live life. Become something great and use that potential. Or, use that potential to be the happiest person you know of. As long as you're using it and not wasting it on an outdated idea of a fucking supreme being. Just stop it already, and take control of your own life. The responsibility is great, but the rewards are unlimited.
Just think about it. Just think about what our brains have created. Think as deeply as you possibly can and focus as much as you can. Do this for an hour, and then read one page out of the Bible. Your first thought will be absurdity. If you stare at reality long enough, you just might wake up from the lie. It's hard to escape because it's hardwired into your very own God. But when you hear the whispers of the absurdity when you read that page, and when you realize just how extremely unbelievable the idea of religion is, don't be afraid. It's ok to say goodbye to brother Jesus and father God and move out and get your own place where you take care of yourself and assume full control of your life and destiny.
I hope you get it. The ultimate answer summarized: God = Human brain... Think about it.
posted by Matt The Sick at 3:29:00 PM
33 Comments:
"And the creator of God; isn't it obvious? Take a look around in the world we live in. Focus, and take in everything you see. Everything you look at was created by the human brain. Not God, folks."
Hey Matt,
Long time, no speak. Did you happen to look outside? Did you see the trees? Did you see your dog? Did you see your family? Who or what made these things? The human brain? I don't think so. What about that bird flying over, or that fish in the ocean? The brain? What about you?? The brain? There is no answer for these things for someone who does not believe in God. Not a proven one. I don't think you opened your eyes wide enough to really SEE what is around you. You will someday. I just realized how much more of a role God plays in my life than I thought. I am not one that goes to church all of the time. I just have a strong belief and faith in God. My wife and I just found out last week we are going to be parents. God has blessed us with one of his many miracles. If all goes well, we will be able to see another miracle at the birth. This is one of the reasons I haven't been on here much lately. I have been trying to learn more about pregnancy and child rearing. Not that anything I read will fully prepare us for a child, it hopefully will help.
Until later,
PJ
This is exactly what I was talking about. When any belief is instilled upon a person from age 1, and it's never ever challenged, nothing will change their mind. If someone tried to tell me that my Mom wasn't really my Mom, but was actually an Alien who created me through science, I wouldn't believe it.
Everything I said went right over your head, PJ. You ignore everything I say and go straight to "errr well, there's trees and dogs and life." Well this is where you put your God to good use. You think about this simple fact: There is actual scientific proof as to where trees came from, where dogs came from, and where we came from. There's at the least, a very strong theory with very little doubt.
Where's the scientific proof of a supreme being? Where is the proof that anything in your holy book actually happened? Where's the proof that Jesus Christ ever actually existed? Where is the proof of God? Have you ever asked yourself why your God made himself so prevalent back then, speaking to enough people and telling enough stories and making enough shit happen to fill that massive fucking book, but has been absent for the past 2000 years?
I know I'll never change your beliefs, PJ. I'm not trying either. I'm only arguing this point because others will think the same thing.
You have to understand the insanity in your belief. You believe something only because it's what you've been told. Even though there is overwhelming evidence that everything you believe is bullshit, you still believe. Why is there even a need for faith? Anything worth believing shouldn't have such a strong stress on "faith."
You say it yourself: "I just have a strong belief and faith in God." Why, PJ? Why do you believe in the big lie? Why do you blindly believe in such an absurd concept? You just can't escape that imprinting on your brain. It's just not possible for people like you.
I need to set you straight now, though. You say that God has blessed you with the miracle of your wife becoming pregnant. In reality here PJ, YOU made the decision to have sex with your wife and YOU made the decision to ejaculate internally and YOU chose to use no protection and YOU chose to be with her. Your brain, your God created life, PJ. And I'm very glad you said that, because it just proves my point. Your idea of God isn't the big man in the sky. It's what lies behind your eyes that is in control of your life. Not a supreme being.
Just remember this: Your brain is the end of the line and is the ultimate ruler of your life. I promise you this: If you're attacked by a burglar in your home, God won't be there to make sure you come out alive. You will only have your true master to rely on, and that's yourself. Your brain.
Matt-
There is a booK that is supposed to be really good called I DON"T HAVE THE FAITH TO BE AN ATHEIST. I haven't read it yet but it is supposed to be pretty intense study of science and philosophy that shows that it is more likely than not that there is a creator.
Remember that the Bible is considered to be, if nothing else, a good account of historical events, and is pretty consistent with other writings of that time period.
Hundreds of people saw Jesus walking the earth after he was dead. If he had not walked out of his tomb alive, we would not know about Him today.:)
Cupcake
P.J.-
Congratulations!! Best to you both! :)
Cupcake
Matt, you don't look deep enough. Where is this proof of how the first tree came into existance? How about the first person or animal? Let's see your proof. You do the same as I. You believe in something that cannot be proven definately. I guess you could say your god is science. Why is your god any more believable than mine? All you can do is believe what the scientists say. Look at carbon dating. How do we know this is an accurate way to measure time? All we can do is take there word at it. Look at evolution. There is no definate proof that it is correct. If it were proven, then a lot of people would be wrong about God, I will give you that, but it has not been proven. You can keep attacking other people's beliefs, but just remember one thing...you are doing the exact same thing. Following a bunch of stuff that can't be backed up.
PJ
Oh, yeah....thanks Cupcake.
PJ
Cupcake
Glad you're still reading, even though I've been a bit blank lately.
I must disagree with your second paragraph. The bible, at best, is a poor account of minor local events that somehow snowballed into a world wide religion. It also contains goofy fictional stories. How can anyone in this year of 2005 actually believe that every animal in existence was put onto a boat that escape a big ass flood, which God threw down to kill everyone. Come on now... This is just one small example of the numerous goofy stories. Moses parted a sea, and everyone walked through it? We aren't 5 years old here. Why can't people recognize the absurdity of a story like this?
I do believe Jesus existed. But I don't believe he rose from the dead. And he surely wasn't conceived without the semen of man. Maybe if there were a few more resurrections in pre-modern and modern history, then I would give the idea a little credence.
If you break things down to basics, and step outside the fairy tale of Christianity, you can eventually see the truth. Let's just look at the supposed immaculate conception. Mary was impregnated by God? Well let me inform the religious folk that the stork doesn't bring the baby. A penis squirting semen into a vagina creates babies. It's that simple. This is a proven scientific fact. A female's egg cannot be fertilized without sperm. God is not human, therefor he has no sperm. No sperm, no life. It's like trying to plant a flower without a seed. No one can just wave their hand and create a flower out of the ground. Science proves this. Proof.
Science proves Jesus being the son of a supreme deity false. The only argument anyone can make to this is by saying "Uh durr... uhhh... well, how do YOU know the sperm fertilizes an egg? Ever been in there watching it happen? I just believe because this is what I've been told since I was two years old.
Wake up and see the absurdity. Sorry Cupcake, the idea that people believe someone rose from the dead got me going.
Pj
I find it so hilarious that you attack carbon dating. That tells me that even you know that it's all a joke, and you have to defend the big lie even to yourself. When they wrote the Bible PJ, they didn't know a whole lot of things. They had no idea this was a planet, and there were others. They had no idea what was going to come in the future. They didn't even realize this place where we live is round. Science is just the progression of intelligence. And that's why science is religions biggest enemy. Religion relies on people remaining in the dark and uninformed. Like I said though, because you felt the need to cast doubt upon a proven science which dispels one of the biggest claims the Bible makes, it shows me that even you have doubt. Just stop. Carbon dating is real. Science is not make believe. Carbon dating is as real as a yard stick. Would you attack the credibility of a yard stick? I think not. The earth isn't 2000 years old and the Bible is wrong. Accept that, and wonder what else the people who wrote the Bible were wrong about.
Here's where you need to really pay attention. When it really comes down to it, we're arguing science and religion. My main point is that the brain is god, but that's not important right now. Here's what you have to understand. Your religion cannot be studied to learn about the origins of life. You can read the same thing over and over, and it won't make any difference.
In science, you can create a hypothesis and study it. You can study animal classes and kingdoms to understand how each of them evolved. You can explain how a weak species became extinct due to natural selection. Only the strong survive. It's a simple concept, and only a fool wouldn't believe it. Take three people; two hunters/outdoorsmen and one program writer who works at Microsoft. If you threw them all into the jungle and told them to survive, who do you think would die first? Natural selection is the ability to survive, the ability to evolve and adapt and change.
And this is precisely what I'm doing for my species. You see, if we don't evolve, we're going to die. Human life will one day be extinct, but I believe we can prolong it for thousands of years if we can break away from this stupid religious bullshit. It's holding us back because you're forced to dispel science, which will safe us, in order to validate your crazy 2000 year old book. Think about that one.
And of course PJ, you should know that trees, humans, and dogs came from single-celled organisms. Here's a good unbiased and reliable look at the origin of life. Here you will read scientific information about the origin of life. This comes from people who live in this era, who are about 50 times more intelligent, informed, and educated than the people who wrote the Bible.
Once there, read about Evolution. Read the SCIENCE that THEORY that come from INTELLIGENT people who live in THIS ERA who are EDUCATED and have 50 FUCKING TIMES more KNOWLEDGE and INFORMATION than the people who wrote the Bible.
But of course... you'll ask me how do I know. You'll ask for proof. You'll ask how I can be sure. This is why I choose to believe this over your bile. Because these ideas can be studied, you can experiment with them. You can take an idea and prove it true or false. You can prove nothing true in the Bible.
How about this. Show me factual proof from a reliable source that proves God exists, and I will shut the fuck up about this forever. Show me proof that any event in history was created by a deity, and I will shut the fuck up.
The brain is God, and it's the end of the line. Wether you realize it or not, you are your own God because it's your brain that believes in God, and in the end, your brain is using the idea of a religion to control your life. Don't you understand that? The brain chooses to either believe or not believe in the idea of a supreme being. Your brain controls how you act, but you cannot control your thoughts or your feelings. Those are involuntary actions. You can choose to ignore them, but the fact remains the thoughts arise. You can choose to say you believe in this or choose not to, in the end it's your God, your brain who's in control. And it controls wether you believe a magical man in the sky made everything, or wether you think that idea is on the same intellectual level has an 8 year old.
Events in the Bible (ie. major wars, rising and falling of empires) are very consistent with other historical documents.
I am curious as to why you believe that Jesus existed.
I am also curious as to why you are so anti religion. I understand not believing in a supreme being but I don't understand people that have so much disdain to the idea.
May I also, disagree with your assertion that you cannot be a Christian and at the same time the best most successful person you can be. On the contrary, I think Chritian living is the best way to be the most happy and successful person you can be.
Respectfully,
Cupcake
Wow, that last comment really staggered me. You seriously don't understand why some people might show disdain for the idea of a supreme being?
Hm. Look at how divided the country is over its leader & his decisions.
Even older religions aknowledged that gods like Zeus & Odin were petty and deceiving, so why the surprise that people might think that of the Christian God? because, according to the bible, he inflicted hell on Job over a bet with the devil that Job wouldn't still love Him (and according to other attitudes towards the devil & his deceiving ways, isn't that actually a victory for him, being that he essentially tricked God into putting an innocent guy through misery just to prove a point?)? What kind of a parable does that make?
Or maybe that God gets pissed that no one listens to him anymore, so he kills almost everyone in a major catastrophic deluge, except for a crazy old man whose great great uncle "walked with Him".
I have to say, if I died and found out there is God waiting behind some pearly gates, point me downward, and give me my pitchfork & pointy tail.
As far as success is concerned, I don't know if I agree, either. I mean, look at Benny Hinn. That guy has swindled folks from all around the WORLD.
And Cupcake, you seem to be forgetting how you add "I think" to your statement. If you're trying to argue that something is right, you really are making it a little opinion with the addition of "I think". And you know what they say about opinions and assholes...
Oh, and Matt--good revelation.
Matt,
A yard stick and carbon dating are apples and oranges. You can't prove something is 2 million years old. That is just a fact. You can prove something is 2000 years old because there is actual written history. A yard stick, there is a definate start and end, so yes it is accurate.
As far as my proof in the Bible....my proof is the fact that you, nor anyone else can prove it wrong.
You bring up a good point, Cupcake. If you live the life of a Christian you will more than likely live a good and fruitfull life.
PJ
Brother Grimm-
I do not pretend to think I know everything like you seem to think you do. If you want someone to listen to your point of view, especially if they disagree with you, cockiness is not the way to do it.
Cupcake.
Brother Grimm-
By the way, Benny Hin did not follow Chritian ideals. You do not sound well versed in the Bible and especially the New Testament. You better be careful of what you wish for.
Cupcake.
To play devils advocate (or is that Gods?)
You cant prove a negative that is one of the first rules of science. So you cant say anything doesnt exist or cant happen because you cant be everywhere or have all the data needed to do so.
Therefore no scientist I think would say that science can disprove a virgin birth. Sure you can set the odds as high but just because we know of no instance where it can happen doesnt make it undoable. There was a time when we didnt know how to split an atom but it didnt make it impossible. Rarity also doesnt exclude them from the realm of possibility. After the first Nuclear blast it was no less likely to happen again even though people in the Amazon had never seen such a thing.
Also Carbon Dating is notoriously bad. there are many instances of live animals testing as thousnads of years old and it happens for various reasons. I think it is ballpark good but there are many times that scientists have to make adjustments to make it work. I worry about any science that needs to be adjusted to get the "right" result. First of all who says what right is.
Thats about all I have I dont debate religion just details, because people get too passionate and irrational for my taste when religion is involved.
BTW to see some reasons carbon dating faisl check this link out.
1. Define for me what "Christian Ideals" are--because they do change from one generation to the next, and also differ much within that generation. Maybe explain to me what you think Benny Hinn's Christian Ideals are?
2. Right, I can't prove God does not exist, but I can say that it is highly unlikely that he does, compared to conflicting cultural beliefs over time.
3. I can't prove anything happened 4000 years ago, nor can I prove anything happened 2000 years ago. I would choose to rely on data obtained by archeologists & geologists, because they can find corrolations between natural events that have alledgedly happened thousands of years ago and events that happened fifty years ago. History is written by the victors, and can (and HAS BEEN at times) be notoriously innacurate. If you don't believe me, look at historical accounts of Hernan Cortes & what he did to the Aztecs. Custer was a horribly inept general, and look at how the majority of Americans view him today. Hell, look at the media today, and you're going to see a farce of "fair and balanced" news channels.
4. Carbon dating inaccuracies come from corrupt samples. But who can find a corrupt sample? So yes, I'll mostly agree on that. Potassium Argon dating is a good dating method, but goes back in millions of years, which may not be helpful for, say Neanderthals or H. heidelbergensis.
5. Yes, unfortunately, SOME scientists skew their results. This is a smudge on science, because these people want it to be a certain way, and have tunnel vision. EVERYONE has biases. Don't think you or I are anywhere above that. But some take it to the extreme of manipulating, or even creating results. Look at Piltdown. Look at Von Danniken. Embarassments to any "ology".
6. If there is a God, why does He/She allow the Donut Repair Club to continue to exist?
LOL! Donut Repair Club...hahahahaha...
Brother Grimm-
1. Do unto others........ is a good place to start. (this ideal has never changed) I think it is fair to say that Benny Hin would not want done to him what he did to others. (Please forgive me for beginning that sentence with "I think") Do I really need to tell you that Jesus was anti- ripping people off?
2. How do you know Custer was an inept General? Were you there??? Or did you just read an account that someone wrote and accept it as true? You talk out of both sides of your mouth.
Cupcake.
A person tends to mumble when they talk out of one side of their mouth.
-"You can prove something is 2000 years old because there is actual written history."
-That's the comment I was responding to when I brought up Custer, if the same person that wrote that is the one refuting what I just said about Custer, then you're arguing alone just proved my point about the reliability of history.
Brothergrimm,
You can prove Custer existed, but you can't prove what kind of person he was. I was explaining that one can define TIME with written history from 2000 years ago and not 2 million years ago. Also, all dating methods have been proven wrong with "bad samples." Not just carbon.
PJ
What kind of person someone is is very subjective and kind of a soft target but if thats what you are after I think it can be proven through historic accounts of ones deeds and demeanor.
It isnt that carbon dating is WRONG it is accurate completely. It is that the amount of carbon in the enviroment fluctuates greatly so you have to know the history of what your dating to date it and make the adjustment. Like having a gun with a bad scope. Not much use unless you know exactly how far it is off and in which direction.
Brother Grimm-
I am not refuting your assertions about Custer. I have no idea what kind of person he was. You yourself say there are conflicting accounts of history. I just don't understand your method of choosing to believe some accounts of history (in general) and totally discarding others.
Cupcake.
"It isnt that carbon dating is WRONG it is accurate completely. It is that the amount of carbon in the enviroment fluctuates greatly so you have to know the history of what your dating to date it and make the adjustment."
You are correct, it accurately measures the amount of carbon on an item. The problem with that statement is what you said in the next line. You have to know the history of an item to determine the history of the item. What kind of influence on the make up of items did the flood have?
With a scope you can physically see how far off you are. With carbon dating, no one knows how far off they are. You can't accurately fix something you are guessing at.
PJ
Cupcake
I haven't read any actual historical events in the Bible, but maybe they're in there somewhere.
I do believe Jesus existed, and I'll tell you why. It's very unlikely that one person who lived 2000 years ago could make such an impact if he were 100% fake. I do believe he existed, and I also believe he believed he was the son of God. My ultimate belief is this: Mary told a lie, and it grew to unimaginable lengths. The world was changed forever because of one girl's lie. It was either be stoned or lie, and she came up with a clever idea and those primitive people believed it.
You ask good questions, and I'll try and make you understand. Overall, I'm very angry about the overall effect of religion on the world. There are a lot of little things, like wars, people wasting their lives, people giving money for no reason, etc. The absolute main reason is lack of progression. That is why I'm so anti-religion. If that book said not to ever eat soup because it was the food of the devil, no one would eat soup.
It's the lack of progression. To have faith in your religion is to deny science. If a scientist believes in a deity, then he isn't even worthy of the title and he certainly will never be the scientist he could be if his brain wasn't ruined.
However, you misunderstood me. I was not talking about happiness, but success. I'm talking about your career, your role in life. A hardcore believing Christian, I'm sure lives a nice happy life. Who wouldn't when you actually believe you're never going to die and you're never alone? Two very big plusses. But my point was that religion clogs the mind of free thinking. It doesn't matter what you do.
Happiness and success are two very different things. My main point was that on your journey in life, you can always go further if you don't believe in a religion. You have restrictions. You have chains. You have outdated rules you must live by. And it's those out-dated rules that make this world a lot shittier than it has to be.
Brothergrimm
Like I've said before, the idea of a supreme being is just wired into peoples' brains. They just can't see. Very well made points. Thank for the comment and I appreciate the compliment.
PJ
You say me or no one else can prove the bible wrong. That's true, but you ALSO CAN'T PROVE IT TRUE EITHER. It's not even a theory. It's like saying "You can't prove the movie Scarface wasn't based on a true story." Don't you get it?
James
I must respectfully disagree. Carbon dating may be inaccurate, it might even be "notoriously bad", but it definitely puts the Bible's historical timeline to shame. I don't think there's much dispute of that fact, but facts can't convince people of what they truly believe.
A virgin birth is impossible. It's one thing to split an atom. Splitting an atom is like building a transporter or a flying car. A virgin birth is an extreme idea on it's own level. A birth cannot take place without seed. This is a fact even with plants. It's the one constant in the entire animal kingdom, with a few oddball exceptions. A seed creates life. Mary could not become pregnant without an egg fertilzed by seed, which comes from a penis. And that's sex, and when you have sex you're not a virgin.
This is all I'm saying... If you take the idea of religion out of it, which scenario is more believable? A) Mary was impregnated by the touch of God, a supreme being who created the Earth. OR... B) Mary become pregnant by Joseph, she knew she'd be stoned to death if anyone found out she had premarital sex, so she made up an absurd lie that primitive people just might believe. God got me pregnant. She survives and a Messiah is born.
Seriously, which scenario is more believable? Thanks for the comment James, as always.
GAHHHH I'M CATCHING UP I SWEAR
More comment replies coming...
"You have to understand the insanity in your belief. You believe something only because it's what you've been told. Even though there is overwhelming evidence that everything you believe is bullshit, you still believe. Why is there even a need for faith? Anything worth believing shouldn't have such a strong stress on "faith."
What proof do you have, Matt? Proof that what you believe is correct? You believe in science, right? You believe everything came from a single cell, right? Where did that cell come from? I'm being serious. Where did it come from? What is the scientific answer to this question? If you believe in the "big bang theory," where did those things that banged together come from? What is the original "beginning?"
Do you not see how ridiculous your beliefs sound? Are you basing your beliefs in science on faith or on evidence? Because there is no evidence. No more than a book I believe that came from the Inventor of this world and everything we know. A book which I believe gives me the answers to all of these question, just like the books you read that give you the answers you want to hear. You can't prove either of the ways we believe, yet we still believe them. Still, for some reason, you believe your way of believing is less ridiculous than mine? I don't think so. I don't think a lot of people think that way.
PJ
Not to beat a dead horse, here, but the reason it is hard to see the use in dating methods is also because people have a tendency of looking at those ALONE. You MUST look at dating results along side other factors. Stratigraphy helps you look at how natural events in the earth have helped chnge it over a period of time, showing what it might have looked like at a time the might corroborate with the carbon dating results.
Also, with regards to anything concerning water flow, you can look at the mineral content of bones or other materials that may have been found in a riverbed or what was once a riverbed. The native formation of these minerals, or the natural abundance of them may only be found in a few specific regions. You can even find evidence of trading routes dating back to the Bronze Age (for lack of a better reference to period).
Matt-
There was a time in history that it was a scientific fact that the earth was flat. Period. End of story. Just because science may not understand or our minds may not understand everything there is to know about the incredible universe around us does not make it impossible. I disagree that you cannot be a Christian and a believer in science at the same time.
I disagree that Christianity holds you back success-wise in any way. All Christians are expected to do in this life is to treat others the way they want to be treated, live an honest and clean life, and be diligent in your career and in your family. How does any of that hold you back from success?
I do not understand your point about lack of progression. The Bible does not ask us to do anything ridiculous like not eating soup. In fact, I would venture to say that you might agree with most all of what the New Testament says is good living. (Please note that I am talking about the New Testament, here)
I know that there have been people within my lifetime claiming to be a god of some kind or claiming to have an in with god, and I honestly couldn't tell you more than one or two of their names. I consider it a miracle that after 2000 years, Jesus is the most widely known individual and the Bible is still a best seller.
Matt, I hear what you are saying - I really do. Up until a few years ago, I had the same feelings. I guess I will agree to disagree at this point but I hope that I can have another opportunity to try to convince you again in the near future.
Cupcake.
PJ
that was the point I was feciously making. You cant fix carbon dating precisely because we dont know the variables. You cant predict history on a crystal ball that needs the history as a prerequisite. I suspect in a lot of cases it is ballpark but ther eis no way to differentiate so it renders it useless as a tool.
Matt
There may be many many problems with a literal translation of the Genesis story but I dont think you can use a science as bad as carbon dating to "refute" anything.
I think it is more proper to say that the odds are high. There are no absolutes in science and as soon as we create them we shut the door on numerous possiblities. I think we agree on the rationality of science completely and I understand where you are coming from.
Its easy to sit in the time we do now and say that splitting an atom is rationale but X is impossible. But 200 years ago it wouldnt have been and that was my point.
To put it in an extreme example maybe Maybe just maybe Mary was the first of her kind a human capable of asexual production like numerous other plants and animals. In her day and age of limited science and understanding she would have known she was a virgin and may well have used a miracle to describe the situation. She may not have been far off ascribing it as divine intervention because the odds against it happening were well even Mary understand they were tall. In a way she understand your case better than anyone.
Maybe she would have started her own Branch in the digital river of dna that has been flowing since the beginning of mankind. But alas it was not to happen because she had no daughter to pass her genes on to that could inherit this trait. So she was a mutant species. A glitch in the machinery of evolution that hiccuped and then kept on flowing.
In my eyes that has always been the grandiose quality of Darwinism that I embraced, its inherit simplicity and the endless possibilities it presents to the world. Anything is possible because the first rule is NOTHING can be disproven. All we can do is calculate odds with the feeble computation power we posess.
I am not defending virgin births because I know the odds as well. Im just saying as miniscule as they are the chance is still there and it makes the world a better place to me. Again not because of religion necassarily but just to live in a world where anything is possible.
Meh, just my 01000000 cents
Cupcake:
I think Superman still holds the title as the most widely known individual, but the best-selling bible part is right--though, shouldn't it be the most widely GIVEN? I wonder is Jesus today would have upturned a Borders bookshelf in the Religion & New Age isle?
James: The concept of an asexually reproducing Mary was hilarious, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and not discount that possibility that Mary was genetically unique--the very first X-Man, ya think?
What are the X men other than evolution at work. It was meant to be a little funny and to illustrate in a exaggerated way the point.
Is it Superman? I thought it would be one of the Beatles. Funny and good point about the Moneychangers.
Matt asked: "If your God created everything on Earth, and controls everything, then who created him? Where did he come from? Who is his God?"
Angel Anthony Responds: "If your little "god"/brain cannot find this answer, then your brain is not God. God is outside time & place. He is not created.
Many philosophers asked this question: "Why is there something, rather than nothing?" The answer is GOD. God is the Creator. God revealed himself to humanity.
Matt said: "You see, you have to understand just how powerful the brain it. It is God. Physically, it is the God of your body. It rules you, it controls you, and you control it."
Angel Anthony Responds: "Matt, don’t go too far in idolizing yourself. It is not our brains who created God. It is God who created our brains. Humble yourself.
Matt said: "Take a look around in the world we live in. Focus, and take in everything you see. Everything you look at was created by the human brain. Not God, folks. None of em. Because in the end, the idea of a God and the idea of a supreme being who is in control of everything is just another creation of the human brain.
Angel Anthony says: "No Matt. Jesus is not the creation of a human brain. The Bible could be. The Quran could be. But not Jesus whom “we saw, we touched, we heard, we talked to.” Jesus is alive. You’ve never met him.
Matt said: "What's your God doing? Perhaps he's working on another natural disaster. I suppose he's in a phase right now where he just can't get enough of killing mass amount of those people he supposedly loves and who he will always protect and forgive."
Angel Anthony Responds: "Use your brain to find out about the Mystery of Evil in this world. Don’t judge God before you understand the mystery of Evil."
Matt said: "There is only one God, and it is the God who created Islam and the God who created Christianity. The human brain, folks."
Angel Anthony: "The brain is not God. Believing in God is very important. This longing to meet God, is in every human heart. This belief is a part of our humanity."
Matt: "It's an idea that snow balled. Nothing more, nothing less. Wake up and stop the praying and the studying of religion."
Angel Anthony: "Why do you want people to stop praying? Why do you want them to stop studying? However, studying is not the way to meet God. It is the way to express your Faith in God.
But I wonder why is Matt encouraging people to stop praying? What is he afraid of? What is he resisting?"
Matt: "Stop wasting your precious time on Earth. Your life is not infinite. When you die, you're gone. That's the end of the story and there will never be a sequel.
Stop wasting your time and start believing in yourself."
Angel Anthony: "No way. It is not a waste of time. My life is eternal. Who told you it is not? Myself is not God. Why do you want me to hit the wall? I tried my own ways and I hit the wall. Now I believe in God’s ways. I love myself but not to the point of making myself a God. I have confidence in myself but without rejecting God."
Matt: "Forget about the idea of a deity or a God. I understand it's a comforting idea, and it is especially difficult or maybe even impossible to forget an idea when it's imprinted onto your brain from the moment you can talk an understand words."
Angel Anthony: "Matt, it is not a lie. It is true. “the idea of God” is not just comforting, it is true. God is a living God."
Matt: "It must also be nice never feeling alone. Whenever you want to talk to someone, they're there to pray to.
But at the end of the day, and in reality, you're talking to the floor."
Angel Anthony: "No. We’re talking to Someone. We knew Him from Christ. We heard about Him from Christ. This is Good News."
Matt: "In reality, you're believing an absurd lie. Wake up and pay attention to the one and only true God that we know for a fact exists. That brain inside your skull."
Angel Anthony: "This is not God. It is created by God. The brain is not eternal. It is mortal."
Matt: "Your brains are controlled by that idea of religion. It's like a strangle hold on your potential and freedom."
Angel Anthony: "This is not true. Who says that God is against my potential and freedom? That’s a lie. God is not against your potential Matt. God is not against your freedom. God will set you free. Atheism will make you a slave."
Matt: "If you lived life according to true word of your God, you would not survive."
Angel Anthony: "What do you mean with your last sentence? To live according to the Word of God is a long process. It is hard but it is liberating at the end. Trust in it. We tried it. It is liberating."
Matt: "So stop believing the lie and wake the *** up. Realize that God is in you. You are your own God."
Angel anthony: "No. This is not true. God is a Person."
Matt: "Knowing this fact, don't waste the precious time. Live life the way you want to live life.
Angel Anthony: "Thank you. I want to live my life with the Presence of the Living God."
Matt: "Become something great and use that potential."
Angel anthony: "I will be someone great and I will use that potential with the help of the living God."
Matt: "Or, use that potential to be the happiest person you know of."
Angel Anthony: "I am the happiest person thanks to the Living God."
Matt: "As long as you're using it and not wasting it on an outdated idea of a *** supreme being."
Angel Anthony: "Your language is a sign of a great resistance. I think God is searching for you, but your resistance seems to be destructive."
Matt: "Just stop it already, and take control of your own life."
Angel anthony: "God is in control of my life. Everything He has is mine."
Matt: "The responsibility is great, but the rewards are unlimited."
Angel anthony: "The rewards you are talking about is a humiliating death like that of Nietzsche, Freud, and Marx. Have you read about the way they faced death? It was horrible."
Matt: "Just think about it."
Angel Anthony: "I thought about it. Thank you."
Matt: "It's ok to say goodbye to brother Jesus and father God and move out and get your own place where you take care of yourself and assume full control of your life and destiny."
Angel Anthony: "You think you are fighting beliefs and ideas, but you cannot fight a Living God. I am not a Christian because of beliefs or ideas. I am because I encountered Jesus in my Life. You will never understand what I am saying unless you encounter Christ."
Matt: "I hope you get it. The ultimate answer summarized: God = Human brain... Think about it."
Angel anthony: "This is not true."
Matt: "Have you ever asked yourself why your God made himself so prevalent back then, speaking to enough people and telling enough stories and making enough shit happen to fill that massive fucking book, but has been absent for the past 2000 years?"
Angel anthony: "God has never been absent for the past 2000 years. He is always working. He is the Lord of History."
Matt: "You say it yourself: "I just have a strong belief and faith in God." Why, PJ? Why do you believe in the big lie? Why do you blindly believe in such an absurd concept? You just can't escape that imprinting on your brain. It's just not possible for people like you."
Angel Anthony: "Matt, don’t attack PJ without trying to understand. PJ has the gift of Faith. Matt does not have it. God gave PJ the gift of Faith. God did not give it to Matt.When you receive this Gift, you will understand."
Matt: "I must disagree with your second paragraph. The bible, at best, is a poor account of minor local events that somehow snowballed into a world wide religion. It also contains goofy fictional stories. How can anyone in this year of 2005 actually believe that every animal in existence was put onto a boat that escape a big ass flood, which God threw down to kill everyone. Come on now..."
Angel Anthony: "This is a story. It is not a fact. How do you read the Bible, Matt? You read the Bible like kids. Read it like a man."
Matt: "This is just one small example of the numerous goofy stories. Moses parted a sea, and everyone walked through it? We aren't 5 years old here. Why can't people recognize the absurdity of a story like this?"
Angel Anthony: "I understand this story because I experienced it. Matt, you will never understand this story, unless God calls you to get out of your atheist ideas. Then, you will start to understand. It is an experience. It is hidden for you. God did not reveal it to you."
Matt: "I do believe Jesus existed. But I don't believe he rose from the dead. And he surely wasn't conceived without the semen of man. Maybe if there were a few more resurrections in pre-modern and modern history, then I would give the idea a little credence."
Angel Anthony: "There were many witnesses to Jesus’ resurrection. Read the Gospels."
Matt: "If you break things down to basics, and step outside the fairy tale of Christianity, you can eventually see the truth. Let's just look at the supposed immaculate conception. Mary was impregnated by God? Well let me inform the religious folk that the stork doesn't bring the baby. A penis squirting semen into a vagina creates babies. It's that simple. This is a proven scientific fact. A female's egg cannot be fertilized without sperm. God is not human, therefor he has no sperm. No sperm, no life. It's like trying to plant a flower without a seed. No one can just wave their hand and create a flower out of the ground. Science proves this."
Angel Anthony: "Do you mean with the Big Bang, there were many seeds & sperms???
That’s foolishness. God is the creator. He can do anything. How was the first human created? With a sperm? You make me laugh."
My Conclusion: Matt, it seems that you are searching for God. You are desparate for science proofs. But in fact, God is searching for you. You expressed a big resistance.
You told Matt that the flood was a story, not a fact, then two answers later you said many people witnessed Jesus' resurrection, that it was in the Gospels. Basically that God's wrath causing a flood COULD NOT be true, but that raising Jesus from the dead IS true. Just thought I'd point that out.
Matt: In science, you can create a hypothesis and study it. You can study animal classes and kingdoms to understand how each of them evolved. You can explain how a weak species became extinct due to natural selection. Only the strong survive. It's a simple concept, and only a fool wouldn't believe it.
I must be a fool, because I don't believe it. One thought that struck me last year as I was sitting in Biology lecture was how evolution can't be proved. The professor laid out the scientific method. The last step in the scientific method is to perform experimental tests to help explain your hypothesis. How do you perform a test to explain evolution? Evolution supposedly takes millions of years to occur. Perhaps you could start an experiment that lasts that long. Maybe then more people would believe in your anti-religion.
Chris
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